LOST TRIBES

I thought I'd kick this back up to the top since I just watched the film. It was great help to a beginner to Super8 format. It gave me some ideas, but was also helpful to spot some of the mistakes that I would have never of dealing with.

The film was like a good read with an intelectual and thoughtful plot. It was fun to watch and gave some great ideas. Like most independent films, some of the actors were weak, but then again I thought some of the actors gave pretty good performances. Although for most of the film the sound quality was good, Matt had warned that the sound in some spots had camera noise come though, and this was noticeable in some of the indoor scenes especially.

Anyway, I'd like to add my recomendations for the film, especially if you are newer to Super8 and would like ideas and an iidea of the look of a finished Super8 project.

Scott

Quote:
<Ok, Devils advocate position....what if you didn't know what format the film was shot on and didn't care.....how do you rate it in that regard?>

I agree witth Roy Brown's comment:
"There are a number of scenes that work very well and unfortunately there are a few that don't for one reason or another."

I would be happy if my first Super8 project turned out this well. The plot is detailed, so people who are looking for an action packed film wouldn't like this film. The stronger points of this film are the visuals, the sets, and the sound, although there are a few noticeable parts where the camera noise is audible or the mic sounds to far from the actor. Some of the indoor scenes look like they could have been better lit.

The script could have used some reworking I think because I thought their were a few lines that were cliche and didn't quite fit with the rest of the film. However, for anyone who has seen the film, I thought one of the best scenes was when the two Mormans came up to the door of that ladies house. Whoever played that part was great!

The pace of the film was sometimes off but I would guess you just have to learn this from experience.

I find it amazing how much Matt put into this film. 5 years and ~$30,000, I think? I plan to do at least a few shorts as a learning experience in Super8 before I pout that kind of money into something. But I'm sure he learned quite bit in the process. It seems like he learned and corrected certain mistakes throughout the film.

Well, back to work on my own script,
Scott

Oh, to answer your original question:

If I didn't know what it was shot on and didn't care, didn't know the filmmaker, etc.

I guess I would think that it was a little slow in parts. I would assume it was an independent film. I would think that some of the scenes were a little too grainy. Perhaps there wasn't enough character development. Some of the dialogue was a little bit contrived.

Ok, Devils advocate position....what if you didn't know what format the film was shot on and didn't care.....how do you rate it in that regard?

-Alex

Well, I think for the purpose of clarifying, but not excusing my film, I will make a few comments. Also, for your education, because we all think, when we start a project like this, that everything is going to be great, we're going to get great actors, etc. and it doesn't always happen that way.
The footage that looks bad, and looks like you would expect Super 8 to look like, was footage I shot on stock other than Kodachrome 40, thinking I would never be able to get exposure indoors on ASA40.
I was wrong, and when I learned this, I shot interiors with K-40, and it looked great. Remember, reversal film looks best underexposed a stop, and negative looks best overexposed a stop, so effectively the 200T neg stock, and K-40 require about the same amount of light.
With the exception of about 4 of my actors, everyone else had never ever acted before.
And almost the entire film was first takes.
There were times that I had 3-4 hours to set up, shoot 7-8 pages, and be loaded up and out of a location, so you really have to race through, and unfortunately, that's a big mistake to shoot under those pressures.
If I had it to do all over again, I would shoot on nothing but K-40, because it's the only S8 stock that you can't see the grain on.
As far as cliche dialog, I'm assuming you are referring to the 3 burnout characters, who I could not keep from improvising, no matter how much I threatened them!
And yes, some of the interiors were not well lit, owing to the fact that when I started filming, I only had shop lights, then I got one Lowel DP, then eventually I had a few of those, some old stage lights, and two great fluorescent light boxes my cameraman built, so some scenes are lit great, others not, owning to when the scenes were shot (not in sequence, of course).
P.S. Here's some advice: get reflectors, even those cheap car window shades, and set them outside and bounce sunlight into the rooms through windows and open dooors, especially at the ceiling if you want good fill. This, and about 2K worth of lights will give you more than enough light to use K-40 indoors.)
If you buy the film (shameless plug following!!!), I'm offering a month + of questions and advice. There are lots of tricks, and there are even more things I learned by making mistakes (many of them from following advice on some of these message board postings on film websites!! Sorry, but it's true...)
Anyway, I appreciate the comments, and I appreciate those who bought the film (it's still for sale on ebay, just type in LOST TRIBES and it will show up).
Thanks!
Matt Pacini

Hey Voltaine, er, I mean Matt!

Like I said, I would be very satisified if my first project turned out this well. I could definitely tell that you learned a lot of things throughout the project, because any problems I noticed in terms of lighting, sound, etc. were corrected most other places in the film.

As for acting, I thought a lot of your actors were very professional. Maybe the 3 burnouts were hamming it up a bit, but it was funny. For my project however, it makes me cringe just thinking about it. My main actor has been in a few local theatrical productions, but everyone else are just friends with zero acting experience.

Besides, I was watching the movie super closely for my own personal education, and probably picked up certain things that otherwise I wouldn't have if I had been watching it more casually.

I'll put my plug in for the film, it was *definitely* worth the $20 and gave me a great visual understanding of the possibilities and limitations of Super8.

Thanks,
Scott

PS I was watching it over at my parents house with my brother and my mom came in and watched part of it and she was really into all the theology aspects and she knew a lot of stuff about the Morman religion and she was agreeing with what was going on, so I guess you did your research. She didn't watch the whole thing, but she seemed to enjoy it while she was watching, maybe she just liked the lesbian cultists! Just kidding. I did though, those girls were pretty hot. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Well,

The footage that looks bad, and looks like you would expect Super 8 to look like, was footage I shot on stock other than Kodachrome 40, thinking I would never be able to get exposure indoors on ASA40.
I was wrong, and when I learned this, I shot interiors with K-40, and it looked great. Remember, reversal film looks best underexposed a stop, and negative looks best overexposed a stop, so effectively the 200T neg stock, and K-40 require about the same amount of light.

If I had it to do all over again, I would shoot on nothing but K-40, because it's the only S8 stock that you can't see the grain on.

I'm offering a month + of questions and advice. There are lots of tricks, and there are even more things I learned by making mistakes (many of them from following advice on some of these message board postings on film websites!! Sorry, but it's true...)
Anyway, I appreciate the comments, and I appreciate those who bought the film (it's still for sale on ebay, just type in LOST TRIBES and it will show up).
Thanks!
Matt Pacini<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think you need to impune this board or other boards by saying that you got bad advice here or somewhere else and therefore we should come to you directly for advice.....

Even if you had gotten great and perfect advice here and at other boards, it would still be worth it to get a free months advice from you and all of your experiences by buying your movie.

So why vaguely slam this or anyone else's website...it isn't necessary, unless you want to cite examples.

By the way, your behind the scene stories are priceless.

I am also curious about your take on Kodachrome 40.

I am perplexed by your statement about K-40, and under-exposing it one stop.

For projecting, that may make sense....but for rank transferring...that could be the kiss of death....

One scenario where your assessment seems accurate to me is if you heavily front light something and you are worried about facial hotspots...

....but for overall full-frame optimal exposure....one-half stop over exposure is generally a good guide.

If your background has darker tones, than sure, your camera may incorrectly give you a reading and it may make sense to stop down one stop, but if you have metered the general area of maximum importance in your scene....(usually the actors face)...then I think underexposing won't work as well, especially when you consider that outside of the area of maximum importance in a scene, generally the tones are darker...(but that is not a hard or fast rule)

Perhaps the question is, what type of metering were you doing to achieve your belief that one stop under is optimal?

-Alex

I don't intend to speak for Matt. But I don't think he was slamming this site, but instead suggesting that I not take every person's advice/opinion as a steadfast rule for what will work best for me. There has been plenty of opposing opinions here, so to assume that everything that is everyone posts is always 100% accurate is not possible.

Scott

Agreed.

Although it would be interesting to hear what Matt considers to be either the 5 most useful or 5 most incorrect morsels of information he has gathered from various boards.

Perhaps that information will be available to those who buy Matt's movie and then e-mail him during that one month time period.

Might be a pretty funny and/or insightful list.

-Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited August 07, 2001).]

What I think would be really interesting would be the five most useful and then the five most incorrect bits of info coming from our dear friend, Alex!
Ha!
So Matt, is e-bay the only way to purchase your film, "Lost Tribes"? It sounds like an awesome film. Shooting a feature in 16 is hard enough, but S-8 must have been bloody murder!

Bob